What’s Wrong with the World

Florida? The poor child hasn't much of a chance. Islam? The chances are weighted down even more.
You wouldn't bet a nickel that this makes the front page of The News That Counts.
But pray we can.

Here is a link to the Columbus Dispatch article from today (New Albany, Ohio, is near Columbus). The comments are worth looking at to get a sense of the local environment.

No comments, just some points/questions:

1. The girl is not an American citizen. Any lawyers in the crowd want to comment on the legal rights of such a minor?

2. The girl is seventeen. Smart money says to delay until she is eighteen and a legal adult (by at least some definitions).

3. Just a question: how could the girl be a cheerleader? It seems as if her family is not too strict with regards to dress. Does this translate over into religious practices, in general, or is conversion the highest possible sin?

4. There have been enough coverage of honor killings in the Islamic countries on the American news, recently, that people will not easily dismiss the girls cautions.

5. Columbus is in Ohio, a fairly conservative Midwestern state. It also has the largest Somali population in the world outside of Somalia. There will be a lot of sentiment on both sides.

6. The whole Facebook thing seems really odd. Why didn't the girl find a Christian church nearby so that the situation could be more closely monitored? Surely those who helped her convert were aware of her difficulties.

7. I wouldn't be surprised if kidnapping or enticement to disaffection (if such a thing exists) charges weren't leveled against the Florida ministers.

8. She might try to go for the asylum plea if she can convince the court that there is a creditable chance she will be killed.

9. This topic is too foreign to American sensibilities and I suspect she will be returned home with court-appointed visits by child welfare. Unfortunately, she has committed no crime and no one can keep her in this country without a restraining order should her parents wish to take her back to her homeland. She could commit a crime, if she got desperate, just to get thrown in jail, although that would be morally wrong (using an evil means to a good end).

10. Here is a link to the local tv article. She was missing for about a month. This was, apparently, big news in Columbus. This is most strange. She could have walked into the Ohio State University law school and found a lawyer in about 2 minutes who would have given her legal counsel. Instead, she chose to run away to Florida to get as far away as possible? Did this child have no guidance from any local Christian adults? How did she pay for the trip?

Just some questions. What this girl needs, at the very least, is to be surrounded by Christians the same way Christians surrounded St. Paul to protect him.

The Chicken

Smart money says to delay until she is eighteen

You mean she should have pretended she was still a Muslim for another year and a bit more, dissembled her conversion to her parents, so she would be legally able to get away from them? If they took her to Sri Lanka (which is one of the things she says she fears) before then, that would be the end of it, even if she could have deceived her father for that long (and would that have been right?). Women older than that have been held in foreign countries against their will.

At this point, everyone who cares about her will be thrilled if she lives, and lives in the U.S., long enough to turn 18 and be free to go her own way.

I meant delay the verdict, not her conversion. One should never delay ones conversion to Christ.

The Chicken

One should never delay one's conversion to Christ.

The Grammar-Impaired Chicken

The verdict would be irrelevant once she turns 18. It's a custody verdict. She will be in her own custody once she is legally an adult. They have to have a custody hearing now, because she just turned 17, and Florida doesn't have normal jurisdiction. In a way, I understand the legal dilemma the Florida authorities find themselves in. Normally a runaway minor is returned to his home state, and his custody case is decided by state family court on the basis of family law within his own state. But even so, she should not be returned to her family's custody. I would think that the Florida authorities have the authority to decide that she will go back to Ohio only if she is remanded to the custody of the state of Ohio. Not that I generally support state custody of minors! But this is obviously an exceptional case.

I'm sure a girl that young in that situation would not try walking into the Columbia U. law school looking for a lawyer. She would certainly go to someone she had come to regard as a friend and a fellow Christian instead, even if she knew the person only on the Internet. That has the ring of truth.

As for the question of where she was for a month, my best guess is that she irrationally hoped the family in Florida could hide her indefinitely. Kids don't always understand that these things aren't possible. They've probably been spending this time explaining to her that they would be in danger of being charged with a crime (kidnaping?) if they were to keep a runaway minor hidden indefinitely. Also, she may have been hoping that her birthday, turning 17, would make the court more willing to listen to her, though it actually has no formal legal significance.

just a little info...rifqa fought and fought hard to be a cheerleader...she actually had to hide it from her family for some time....but eventually was able to let them know...did they come to any of her events and watch her..absolutely not. she went to florida to get as FAR away as a child knew how....shes young, frightened and i am sure feeling out of control at this point. hopefully ohio courts will take alot into consideration when deciding her fate. we love you and miss you rifqa.

If the Florida court sends her back to Ohio, she'll likely end up being murdered. The courts will then shrug and say "but... but... our hands were tied cuz... it's da big bad law that made us send her back to her death!"

Cases like this make me cynical because I've seen too many people who make a fetish of the rule of law and like the Pharisees, would rather let their neighbor die than dare break the Sabbath.

I'm sure that Ohio family law, like that of every other state I have ever known of, allows the state to take summary custody of a minor in an emergency, after which an investigation can proceed. I think this should be such a case. If there is no way legally to get around Ohio's jurisdiction, then the Ohio child and family authorities should immediately take her into state custody and place her in a protective foster location in Ohio without ever returning her to her parents' house. At that point they should undertake an investigation, which should not need to be long, and on that basis conclude an official custody hearing by placing her long-term into non-familial custody. Her father and any other male relatives she names as having made threats or cooperated with her father in threatening her should be served with restraining orders forbidding them to come near her, and the police should investigate and decide whether they have sufficient evidence to press formal charges for assault (threats) or, if relevant, extortion (to change her religion back to Islam). And wherever she is placed in custody there should be large, preferably armed, good-hearted males to take care of her. Perhaps she can suggest someone amongst her Christian contacts in Ohio.

I just saw this story on ABC news, and now the whole country knows. I immediately began to cry and pray for her. As a Christian my heart wants to reach out to her and I cam here to my comp to find a way to post something that may reach her. I am here to help her any way I can

Some people posted that with her Muslim background people will not car enough about her. Wrong! I'm here to tell you all us Christians,and even a lot of non-Christians, including atheists, care about her because we are Americans and we believe in religious freedom and the value of a life. (most of us). Freedom of Religion was the #1 reason we came here to start the United States of America. (I'm descended from those original Americans). So I want her to know she has millions of people out here who would help her, take her in, help her hide or find a safe place, and we are praying for her.

True Muslims are good people and know what her Father has threatened is Not part of their religion. It is the idea of the fanatics,which we find in Any religion. So don't blame Muslims or their religion. I've had many good Muslim friends. I hope somehow she can become a citizen and remain protected from her parents. Deb in Tx

Ohio is in the spotlight because whatever they decide will possibly influence the results in other states. Can the ruling of the court be appealed if it results in returning Rifqa to her parents and can the process block the return until she exhausts those appeals? I don't know if this subject matter could ever make it to the Supreme Court, but I shudder if it ever does.

The Chicken

True Muslims are good people and know what her Father has threatened is Not part of their religion.

Umm, yes it is. The Hadith has a very simple commandment on the subject:

Ibn Abbaas said : The Messenger of Allah said, “Whoever changes his (Islamic) religion, kill him.” Al-Bukhary (number 6922)

The Hadith enjoys a relationship in Islam that is halfway between the Torah and Talmud in Judaism, so it may not be considered pure divine revelation, but it is accepted as a serious part of the religion by mainstream Muslims around the world.

Robert Spencer has an excellent post up today, linked from Front Page, on the support in Islamic texts and scholarship for the death penalty for apostasy. Spencer is a real scholar of these things. The problem is that to be a "peaceful" Muslim one has to bear the sort of relationship to one's religion that Christians call being "nominal" or "lukewarm" or, at least, "modernist." In other words, the religion has to be radically and implausibly "reinterpreted" to make it appear peaceful. This renders moderates liable to be radicalized at any time in the name--plausibly enough--of becoming true Muslims or better Muslims.

Unless they can find some basis for federal jurisdiction, this would remain a state court matter and be fought out in Ohio or FL state court. Not likely to get to the US SCt.

Correct. What I wonder is this: What power does Florida actually have? For example, can Florida maintain custody until she turns 18? Can Florida refuse to release her into Ohio custody unless Ohio agrees ahead of time not to send her back to any family member (her extended family is also a potential danger to her)?

Keystone Kop alert:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027209.php

A police officer from Columbus has met with Rifqa's father, and he "seems like a loving father." Oh, geez. As Robert Spencer says, what is the father going to say? "Yes, please send her back so we can chop her up in little pieces."

It looks like this policeman is from the missing persons unit. This probably means that even if she were sent back to Ohio, he wouldn't be involved in deciding how or whether to protect her there. But perhaps others as naive would.

But it's important to note that the Islamic aspect of this must be taken into account as background information and that unfortunately many people in public positions to protect Rifqa may believe that that is exactly what they must not do. It would be discriminatory, y'know.

Lydia,

Correct. What I wonder is this: What power does Florida actually have?

The courts invent new powers, rights, justifications, litmus tests, etc. out of thin air all the time. Now would be a perfectly justifiable time for radical judicial activism along the lines of "the rule of law and parental rights are neither a suicide pact nor grounds to turn prey over to predators."

Oh, Christians, please pray!!! Don't just discuss, pray hard.

I find it sad that our courts and police officials are so uninformed that they would not realize a muslim father would deceive non-muslims to achieve his goal of regaining control of his daughter.
My prayer for Rifqa is two fold, that she will not be returned to her father and that people of this country will wake-up and realize that there is change happening in the country that is threatening our way of life. The changes seem insignificant to the average person.
Since when did the rights of a parent out-weigh the rights of a child to be safe and secure. Please Abba, Keep Rifqa safe. Wrap her in your arms of love. Surround her with your angels and put a hedge of safety around her so no harm may befall her. Convict her father to release her."

Bill, you can be confident that the Christians who are discussing this issue here are praying!

Wow, I actually know the local Pastor in question from his prior position at Pine Castle UMC. He's a good man and takes his faith seriously. Please keep him and his family in your prayers.

Heavenly Father,

I lift this dear, frightened girl and those who are protecting her Lord. Thank You that You are already in this situation Lord. You knew this would be happening long before the story ever hit the newstands. Watch over Rifqa though and those who are supporting her. Keep them in Your care and minister to them through the power of Your Holy Spirit. Keep them from those who are too ignorant to help and those who want to harm. I pray this in the powerful and holy name of Jesus, Amen!

I am a Muslim, born and rasied in Canada of Sri- Lankan dissent (which is one reason this case has come under my view) This website seems to be one of the few that are at least discussing the case. I have a few points that I will hope you consider:

- I am not here to discuss Christianity vs. Islam

- Rifqa Bary is a minor; her parents uprooted from Sri-Lanka because of there daughter and her need for Medical Attention ( thats a fact; one that supports that she has loving parents). As a minor she belongs with her parents unless there is some proof that she will be mistreated or as everyone is claiming killed. I believe the police have already interviewed the parents and have made an initial assesment. In Rifqa's own speech does she ever say that she was actaully threatened? Or this is what she thinks will happen (or someone has told her that will happen)

- Rifqa's speech: she called her blood "halal" and they would have to kill her now; this is the term for all things permissable in Islam. Halal food stores are where muslims will get there Meat. I got the "feeling" that words were being put in her mouth. I cannot make any conclusions from this feeling as it is not fact. Bit I will continue to look for answers.

- Why she went to Florida? Something that was brought up here..why not find a pastor in Ohio; or a Chrisitian friend? More questions. I also saw another website questioning the Church that she went too.

I read that "Second, the Global Revolution Church has a rather questionable name and even more questionable values. “We believe in a spiritual revolution that will ignite the transformation of our culture,” sounds rather extreme, particularly when combined with “global preparation for the return of Jesus Christ, especially through 24/7 prayer and worship and through raising up end-time messengers.”"

Would that be similar to a lot of Church's stated values? If the Pastor was concerned about Rifqa's safety would they have not have tried to validate the claims against the parents? Believing that she should now be Christian is not a valid enough reason to seperate from her parents.

- As I have parents that were not brought up here I can tell you that they are less open to change than I would be. It is just a part of that culture; something we saw more of on this side of the world 50-100 years ago. You just dont go against your parents? That upbringing brings a fear that causes great confusion in kids especially when facing new things.

There are a lot of questions to be answered. Rifqa's safety is the number one concern. If that is determined I would hope that you believe that this minor should be returned to her parents as that is a relationship that none of you could replace and one that she will need to be a stable human being. She can then grow up to make her own decisions.

Yes, she has expressly claimed that her father said that he would kill her if she "has this Jesus in [her] heart." That they came to the U.S. seeking medical attention for her certainly doesn't prove that they are "loving parents." Amina and Sarah Said's parents spent the considerable money (which any parent knows is considerable) for braces for them, but they were victims of an honor killing, with all the evidence pointing to their father's having gunned them down in cold blood.

A girl who is in credible danger of being killed by her parents should not be in their custody, and I say that as someone who yields to none in my defense of parents' rights. I believe Rifqa's claims are credible, for many reasons (yes, including the religious context), and I believe the police and social workers should take them very seriously indeed. If she is returned to her parents' custody this will be an act of great irresponsibility on the part of the relevant public authorities. And the same is true for being put into the custody of anyone in her extended family who, according to her, helped to track down and report her Christianity to her parents.

from your own comments: "She has expressedly claimed"; not they have threatened but this is her feeling..or one that someone has cultivated within her. Again I do not have all the facts but please do not come to a conclusion without having them all yourself.

Please see posting from http://phil2v13.wordpress.com/2009/08/10/pray-for-rifqa-bary/

"I am a friend of Rifqa and the famiy as well. At no time was Rifqa’s life in danger, in fact, her family stated that she could practice any religion she wanted. Her family sacrificed so she could come to, and stay in this county. I find it curious that people who didn’t even know her seem to know so much about her."

What would persuade you to believe that her parents would in no way harm her? WOuld you look into there past for violent behavior? Would you interview the people that have been around her and her family?

What concrete facts are you reviewing to make your decision? Can I now use the bible as fact for every case against every Christian out there? Other than that and Rifqa's own testimony, the testimony of a 17 year old child, what else are you even considering?

I apologize if I sound confrontational.

She claimed *that the father threatened to kill her*. I don't know if this is a language issue or what, but she didn't just claim that she "felt" in danger or something. She claimed that he threatened to kill her. So she has to be lying if he didn't. It's that simple. His word against hers. I believe hers is more credible, given the background, including other similar cases I know of.

Don't get me started on the "Bible is dangerous, too" stuff. That sort of silly equivalency won't fly. I'd love to hear someone name the last time Jewish parents stoned their child for disobedience. Amina and Sarah were murdered last year by their Muslim father for their Western ways, and the toll of honor killings the world over in the name of Islam is enormous. Now. Not three thousand years ago.

Yeah, I consider the "testimony of a 17 year old child" to be credible in this particular case.

You know, Mr. Yeah, I'm not going to let you waste a lot of my time.

I've known Rifqa for about 4 months now, This as WAY before all of this started to happen. And also before her father had even the slightest idea that she was a christian .....even at THAT time she was afraid of her family finding out since she knew that if they did her life wouldn't be worth that of a broken straw to them. Her father when he found out that her Facebook page at the time was covered in Christian info questioned her and told her that "If you have accepted this Jesus Christ into your heart, I have no daughter," in addition to waving her laptop computer around and almost hitting her with it at the time!

Also, in response to someone saying that her parents moving her family over here to get her treatment means nothing. Take the case of the Said sisters for example http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/019469.php i ill also bet that you have no idea how her eye actually got hurt do you... It happened http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/019469.phphen her brother (who has physically abused her) threw a toy airplane at her head and hit her directly in the eye.

And ohh yet another piece of information her brother has known that she was a Christian for ~1.5 years now and HE didn't tell their father because he knew that is she was revealed she would become an honor killing.

- A Friend fearing for her safety in Columbus, Ohio

Dear friend of Rifqa's--Jihad Watch has put up contact information for the governor of Florida and also for the Florida department of Child and Family services. I suggest you write to them and tell them the information that _you have_ about the situation--her abuse by her brother but also her brother's hesitation to tell the parents that she was a Christian. Urge them not to send her back to Ohio. Use your name. Do not write anonymously, or they will ignore the contact. Also, state that you are prepared to talk to DCF in Ohio if, God forbid, she should be sent back to Ohio. If they do send her back to Ohio, there will be an investigation there by the child welfare people, and knowledge of previous abuse and corroboration of her story of possible threat to her life will be very important there. But you will have to be willing for the relevant authorities to know who you are.

"Friend of Rifqa's": DO you know how her eye got injured? The family emigrated to the US in 2000 because of this injury; if the brother is involved they were then kids at the time. Are you trying to take what happened between 2 children siblings and make it look like she was being abused at home?

As a friend of Rifqa's would you be able to confirm that she was a cheerleader at her highschool? What was the consequence of this? Her parents were aware of this...was she abused or sent back to Sri-Lanka for this?

Whoop-de-do. They didn't send her back to Sri Lanka for being a cheerleader. It also sounds like they weren't overly thrilled about it. But obviously, apostasy is a much bigger deal. Please. Stop wasting our time.

I had posted here because it seemed there were some comments that open to more than one point of view. I apologize as it appears that you have already made your judgement and have sentanced her parents. I was unwilling to do so because I am not privy to all the facts; apparently that is not a concern for you.

To put it mildly, I recommend erring on the side of not sending a young woman back into a plausibly very dangerous situation. Obviously, these are judgment calls, but it is quite clear that she will come to no harm if she stays with the family in Florida (unless relatives come from Ohio to harm her), and there is at least probable cause to fear that she will come to harm in Ohio or be returned by her parents to Sri Lanka where she will come to harm. The obviously prudent course is to let her stay in Florida. In a year she will be 18 and custody will no longer be an issue.

I am merely stating that the facts are not present for us to make a decision. Amina and Sarah Said have frequently been brought up. In some reading I have learned that there was a history of abuse, police had acknowledged a history of domestic problems, threats were known to family and friends from bruises on the daughters; the girls had accused there father of sexual abuse;the girls father owned a gun (although it is Texas) Those factors are not present in this case. There have only been claims of threats; the parents claim they only want there daughter back...what facts are you basing your decision on in believing one person over the other?

This girl's fears are genuine and justified. See links under DAUGHTER SLAUGHTER at The Religion of Peace™ Subject Index

Good luck Rifqa Bary, you're gonna need it.

Her court date is today. She needs MUCH PRAYER!!

Turning 18 may not save her. It didn't save Amina Said.

I pray that the Lord would protect Riqfa Bary, but more importantly, that His will would be done, and that YHWH's Name would be glorified in and through all of this. I pray also for protection for Pastors Blake and Beverly in Orlando. I pray that Riqfa Bary would be a mighty witness for the Lord Jesus Christ, and that many would come to know the Lord as their Savior and Lord through her, or through her story. I also pray that Riqfa Bary would be filled with the joy and power of the Holy Spirit, that she would have the peace of the Holy Spirit in her, that she would be comforted and strengthened and encouraged, that her fears would be taken away by the power and peace of the comforting Holy Spirit, and that her faith and trust in YHWH would be strengthened. I praise YHWH that Riqfa Bary's name has been written in the Lamb's Book of Life, so that, no matter what happens to her, she will spend eternity in Paradise. If it is YHWH's will that she gain a martyr's crown, then so be it. Otherwise, I would pray that she would be protected from her father and family, or any others that would seek to kill her because they consider her an apostate and a humiliating embarrassment to their family.

1. Mohamed Bary and his wife appear to be devout, observant Muslims -- Mrs. Bary, after all, has her head covered in the photo of them that is circulating. That indicates that they respect at least some, if not all, Islamic laws. Mohamed Bary is asking us, by claiming that he has no problem with his daughter being a Christian, to believe that he rejects Islamic law in this particular area. Yet there is no indication that they reject Islamic law in any other way.

2. Apostasy is a capital crime according to all the Islamic schools of jurisprudence, so that it is not unreasonable to believe that devout Muslims would object to the conversion to Christianity of their daughter, and desire her death.

3. Other Muslim fathers have appeared to be credible, gentle fellows as they lured their wayward daughters back home -- after they had run away in fear for their lives. And then, once they were back home, they murdered them.

In light of those facts, the court would be foolish in the extreme, when it convenes again today, Friday, August 21, to expose Rifqa Bary to risk. There is no doubt that this would not be done in other child welfare cases -- any reasonable suspicion that the child could be in physical danger is acted upon immediately, and the child removed from the home. For what conceivable reason should this case be different?

Please see this:
RIFQA BARY BEFORE HER ESCAPE: BEATINGS, BRUTALITY, SUBJUGATION
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/08/rifqa-bary-before-her-escape-beatings-brutality-subjugation.html

I found this link this morning, by Dr. Wafa Sultan, a former Muslim who is now under threat of death herself:

http://muslimsagainstsharia.blogspot.com/2009/08/wafa-sultan-unfortunately-rifqa-barys.html

Continue to pray for Rifqa!

I heard by my Facebook grapevine that the Florida court ruled today that Rifqa does not have to return to her family. Does anyone have valid information about this? It's certainly good news, if true, though it still doesn't make her absolutely safe, of course.

Yes, its official, at least for the time being. IN a stunning upset, she can stay in Florida while they investigate the Mosque her family worships at. There will be another hearing on September 3.

All this information may be found on the Jawa report site (whatever that is - I just goggled: Rifqa Bary and Fox News and stumbled onto the site). The poster claims to have spoken to someone on the legal team five minutes before.

The Chicken

The Spetember 3. trial is a ependency trial.

The Chicken

Ahem, a DEPENDENCY hearing.

The Chicken

Pamela Geller at Atlas Shrugs has had a live blogger at the hearing. The information is correct, as far as I can tell.

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/

The Ohio judge concluded that he has jurisdiction because she's in Florida now and (this is crucial) because no Ohio court has even tried as yet to claim jurisdiction. Obviously, the parents will immediately file a motion for an Ohio court to try to get jurisdiction.

But I don't know what a dependency hearing is. TMC, do you know what that means? I'm guessing it's something that would routinely come next in Florida.

There is also some question about her immigrant residency status. Looks like her parents may have let her visa run out...

I would guess that a dependency hearing would have to do with whether she can be seen as NOT a legal dependent of her parents, though I don't know for sure. Loss of residency could be a fatal problem, too . . . I would hope there would be no move to deport her, as that might be even worse than returning her to her family.

A good recap of Florida law can be read at:

http://jewishodysseus.blogspot.com/2009/08/choose-life-judge-adams-rifqa-bary-is.html#links

You can read all about Florida child judicial proceedings (Chapter 39) at
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0039/titl0039.htm&StatuteYear=2009&Title=-%3E2009-%3EChapter%2039

You have to drill down to get to the details. Start at the defintions. A dependency hearing is nothing more than showing she is not self-supporting (i.e, she doesn't qualify for emancipation see Chapter 243) and to establish who has responsibility for her care. As the link above notes, Florida has some fairly strict child abuse laws and since the judge retained the case I'd not ask the parents to appear in Florida since they may very well be arrested. One hopes, even if the parents try to intervene via an Ohio filing, her attorneys can keep the ball in the air until she can just prove she's emancipated. Consider, for example, if a church hired her and paid her room and board plus a salary. Under Florida law she'd petition to be declared non-dependent and should win.

Here is the governing law. I haven't had time to research the law in detail.

I think Beth is right. If her residency status is in question, this could be a whole other and sad ball game. Perhaps she could try for a stretch of the asylum laws.

The Chicken

Ah, here is the specific statute.

The Chicken

Got it. Looks like a petition re. the continuation of her status as being in the custody of the state of Florida instead of in the custody of the parents. The judge also mentioned "mediation" which is mentioned in the statute--presumably, with the parents. I am heartened by the fact that it was a lawyer for Florida DCF who petitioned for her to remain in Florida today. (According to a MSM news story I just read.)

Wow...again guilt has already been placed with the parents by everyone here...I am not sure how you all came to that decision..but I can guess that from the fact that you have already tried this case your next step logical step will be to take all muslim children away from there parents cause there is the possibility of danger...lets look only at the fact that they are muslim and nothing else.

Apostasy in Islam: you seem to have set in stone what Islam says...has anyone done any research or have you been just listening to what everyone else is saying...at the least please go to wikipedia and look it up (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam)It gives you at least a well rounded look at it. To summarize it mentions that the Quran mentions that apostates will be dealt in the afterlife by god citing many references.

It does also state that in Islamic Sharia Law that the penalty for Apostasy is death. Please note that in Sharia Law this is something determined by what is the likes of a court. No father can choose to kill there daughter at home for any reason. Islamic law states that in the absence of such a court the the Law of the Land. It also references the case of Salman Rushdi a very famous Apostasy case. He was caught in Iran in 2006 (you will remember this is the man who wrote a book saying some very bad things about out Prophet (PBUH)) So was he killed like a rabid dog? No...he was released for being mentally incompetent....funny how the threat to him in 1989 was all over the American Media but this relatively unnoticed (even I didnt know until reading it here)

Rifqa's claim: The only way I can get you to understand that a claim isnt the truth us perhaps by using this example: Is every Christian Clergy or Minister accused of Child molestation guilty? After all as a human being if I was put in a state of Celebacy there are going to be some serious human biological needs that need to be met. The media has shown me enough examples of this (although now I believe the Media is treating it as old news and the norm so not the shocker as it was at one point) So...is every claim true??

in bold it should state "the Law of the Land must be followed"

I'm not even interested in what you have to say, Mr. Yeah. It's _possible_ Rifqa is lying, heaven knows why. But not plausible. And, yes, the apostasy angle is highly relevant. Robert Spencer's done some excellent documentation here. Tellingly, one of the spin-meisters from the Islamic side even admitted that death for apostasy is the traditional position. He just advocates a reinterpretation.

And, no, the silly parallel to Christians just won't wash. The false symmetry Muslims try to spin out may play with liberals. It won't play with me. Evidence is often not symmetrical, and it certainly isn't here. The girl's life should not be risked. She is fine where she is and should be left there.

It is apparent you are not interested in what I am saying...although they are just facts..it is apparent if I had the proof that there was nothing to this case you would not want to hear it...I do not add connoatations like "spin-meister" to my comments because they are misleading...if you stick to the facts...all you are going on is the fact that they are Muslims...if the conversion were the other way around no one would give this a second thought (even though kids get beaten for denying Christianity and run away from home...yah it does happen it just doesnt make the news.) At least the Law is pointing to more investigation; of Rifqa's home and of the Mosque that they go to...why do you want to believe so much bad things about Muslims?

Old Testament Deuteronomy chapter 13, verses 6-9:

6 “If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers, 7 of the gods of the people which are all around you, near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth, 8 you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him; 9 but you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people.

Yeah, and just _think_ of all the converts from Judaism and from Christianity currently in hiding for their lives because Jews and/or Christians are applying this verse literally today. It's shocking. Judeo-Christian honor killings all over the gosh-darned place.

I really, really advise you to stop wasting my time. Muslim apologists are so...dull. Likewise unimaginative.

SO you do admit that people have to apply it, just being written doesnt automatically mean all people will...what proof do you have the Rifqa's parents would do so?? And you call me dull and imaginative?? But your biggest fact is because people are claiming it is written in the Quran (when it is actually not)...again every time that I being up facts that you do not like you do not have an adequate response...you resort to calling me a "spin-meister", "dull", or call my facts silly without discussing what they are about. You should keep your name calling to a minimum on these blogs.

It is in sharia law, well-documented. I'll say whatever I dam' well please on this blog. This is my thread, in case you haven't noticed. Now, listen, I realize you think anything uttered by a 17-year-old "child" is worthless, and I realize you don't "get" mutual support, but we have mutual support going on here. The Islamic context, including other attempted honor killings in _recent years_ (which you persistently ignore), the girl's credible-sounding testimony, and statements from her friends that she was in fear of her life and had expressed these fears on multiple occasions before leaving. Deal with it. I know you don't like evidence that makes a distinction between religions to the detriment of your own religion, and you want to spin all this equivalence stuff. But too bad. Stop wasting my time. I've given you repeated indications of what my evidence is. You don't like it. Now bag it, before I start deleting your comments. I'm tired of you, and I wrote this post to get my fellow Christians to pray for this young lady, our sister in Christ, who we have credible reason to believe is in danger, not to involve myself in a debate with a Muslim apologist.

Today is the dependency hearing for Rifqa. Please, pray.

The Chicken

YeahYeah you need to consult a dictionary for the term "halal" as it applies to blood. Halal blood is OK to spill-- like that of a lamb.

I do apologize..I misread the purpose of this blog...I thought people were looking for the truth...not to further advance a Christian Evangelist propaganda...also it is your blog so you can do what every you want...but when when you counter logic with calling be a muslim apologist it does not really help your argument (I am a muslim not a muslim apologist)and when you call other people names it is your right; but most of my Christian friends would call that "un-Christian"...in terms of other "honour killings"...you have brought up what 3 to 5 (altough I am not convinced they all fall under hounour killings)...do you know what percentage of the Muslim population that is in the US? Do you have any idea? I bet that it is smaller than the percentage of rapists that fall under the Christian faith in the US. Your logic is flawed. Thank god that there is actually a process and investigation that the law follows as it appears if it were upto you Rifqa's parents would have been burnt at the stake already! Stick to the facts and be wary of your assumptions (I believe both the Muslim and Christian faith have something to say about making assumptions and jumping to conclusions)

Yep, no "jumping to conclusions" in "if it were up to you Rifqa's parents would have been burnt at the stake already."

Hmmm...not sure what you are trying to say...I only meant that you are willing to take away someones child (for most people worse than being burnt at the stake) without allowing for an investigation