What’s Wrong with the World

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What sanity looks like

Comments (23)

We are very fortunate to enjoy the work of L'Angelus here in the diocese of Nashville.

Lovely video with lovely music. I did click on their swing video and it was a lot of fun.

...and sounds like.

Pretty women, charming rhythm, and an ineffable song theme.

Many thanks for posting this, Mr. Culbreath.

Beautiful. A new group to me.

Sane, indeed, and lovely. Thank you for introducing some great music.

Sanity is defined as worshiping the Virgin Mary in French? I'm checking myself into an asylum.

Have a nice visit.

Sanity is defined as worshiping the Virgin Mary in French? I'm checking myself into an asylum.

Dear Steve. St. Augustine gave the right response to the type of false charge you made.

The City of God (Book VIII)


Chapter 27.— Concerning the Nature of the Honor Which the Christians Pay to Their Martyrs.

…But, nevertheless, we do not build temples, and ordain priests, rites, and sacrifices for these same martyrs; for they are not our gods, but their God is our God. Certainly we honor their reliquaries, as the memorials of holy men of God who strove for the truth even to the death of their bodies, that the true religion might be made known, and false and fictitious religions exposed. For if there were some before them who thought that these religions were really false and fictitious, they were afraid to give expression to their convictions. But who ever heard a priest of the faithful, standing at an altar built for the honor and worship of God over the holy body of some martyr, say in the prayers, I offer to you a sacrifice, O Peter, or O Paul, or O Cyprian? For it is to God that sacrifices are offered at their tombs—the God who made them both men and martyrs, and associated them with holy angels in celestial honor; and the reason why we pay such honors to their memory is, that by so doing we may both give thanks to the true God for their victories, and, by recalling them afresh to remembrance, may stir ourselves up to imitate them by seeking to obtain like crowns and palms, calling to our help that same God on whom they called.

St. Augustine was identifying the lack of evidence of the false charge that we Christian Catholics, since time immemorial, have worshiped anyone other than our Triune God.

And I am asking you to produce evidence we Christian Catholics worship Mary.

In Pews all over the world there are millions of Worship Aids/ Mass Books etc publicly available that you could use to provide evidence of your false claim we Catholics worship Mary.

Happy hunting...

Vermont Crank:

Speaking of false charges, I'd like you to produce evidence from those two sentences which you contest, that I accused Catholics, generally, of worshiping Mary. I need not search the millions of publicly available Mass Books to support my charge because my charge concerned solely the song in question. So I will produce evidence from the song in question (and please feel free to contest the evidence as it was taken second-hand from allthelyrics.com, I having no competency in that language).

Here's the English version:

I'll see her one day
In the Sky, in the Garden
Yes I will see Mary
My joy and my love

In the Sky, in the Sky, in the Sky
I'll see her one day

I'll see her one day
I'll join the angels
To sing her praises
And form her court

I'll see her one day
This so beautiful Virgin
Soon I'll be near her
To say my love

In the Sky, in the Sky, in the Sky
I'll see her one day

I'll see her one day
I'll go near her tomb
To welcome the dove
For the eternal stay

I'll see her one day
I'll go away from earth
To the heart of my mother
To rest with no return

In the Sky, in the Sky, in the Sky
I'll see her one day

I'll see her one day.

http://www.allthelyrics.com/forum/french-lyrics-translation/34220-translate-this-song-jirai-la-voir-un-jour.html (emphasis added).

This song describes a heaven in which the Triune God is replaced with the beautiful Virgin. The singer longs for the day when he can go join Mary's court and sing praises to her -- not to the God to whom worship is justly due. He will leave this earth and go to the heart of his mother. To the singer, the goal of this earthly life is to join Mary -- not God -- in eternal paradise.

Now, to me, that sounds a lot like the singer is worshiping Mary and not the Triune God. I do not hear a priest of the faithful offering sacrifices to Mary, but I do hear someone wishing to sing Mary eternal praise.

As I said, feel free to contest translation and perhaps resolve my qualms. I apologize that my comment was taken as accusing my siblings in Christ of idolatry -- I appreciate that said charge is leveled too often and too often in complete ignorance. I did not intend to make it or be perceived as making it.

One last comment on the song itself, however: despite that woman's beautiful voice, it's still a 7-11 song.

But Steve, can't you lighten up as far as sanity and the overall oeuvre of the video? I praised it even though I guessed it was a hymn to Mary (the name of the group kind of leads one to expect that, don't you think?), and I'm a staunch Protestant and don't agree with Catholic Marian teaching.

We've been discussing a lot of grim things here recently, and the world is a very horrible, bad place in many ways, especially attacking children's innocence and even their very lives. This song and video are beautiful and show innocence, etc., in a charming way. I think a staunch Protestant can accept that and see its value without getting involved in theological evaluation of the lyrics.

Speaking of false charges, I'd like you to produce evidence from those two sentences which you contest, that I accused Catholics, generally, of worshiping Mary.

OK. Here is the evidence:

Sanity is defined as worshiping the Virgin Mary in French?

In the song, Mary has not replaced God in Heaven. The song is sung about the Holiest Saint in Heaven.

The song references The Holiest Saint in Heaven as Mother, Virgin, and Queen; all of which are true statements and apt lyrics.

Apocalypse 12:1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars

The singers are all Christian Catholics and some of the children in the video can be seen at the foot of a large Crucifix which is odd bahavior for people who have replaced Our Triune God with Mary.

The song does not either use the word worship nor is worship the subtext of the song.

I too love Mary as my Mother. And as a Trinitarian, I am proud to proclaim I have Thee Mothers; Agatha, Mary, Holy Mother Church and my Mothers can beat-up your Mother.

Well, ok, that last bit was unnecessary but I am Irish-Algonquin, so, you know....

Lydia: I concede.

Vermont Crank: You've done it again; I'm not going to bother with you.

This song describes a heaven in which the Triune God is replaced with the beautiful Virgin.

Steve, do you look forward to reuniting with departed loved ones in heaven? If so, do they replace the Triune God?

Look - someday you're going to have face up to Mary, to the fact that Jesus Christ, the God-man, the third Person of the Holy Trinity, has a human mother and all that fact implies and suggests about her. The near-absence of the Blessed Virgin in the modern western consciousness is tied to virtually every evil that has befallen us. There will be no restoration without her.

We've been discussing a lot of grim things here recently, and the world is a very horrible, bad place in many ways, especially attacking children's innocence and even their very lives. This song and video are beautiful and show innocence, etc., in a charming way. I think a staunch Protestant can accept that and see its value without getting involved in theological evaluation of the lyrics.

Lydia, yours is a generous spirit.

The song references The Holiest Saint in Heaven as Mother, Virgin, and Queen; all of which are true statements and apt lyrics.

Apocalypse 12:1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

Well said, VC. The biblical roots of Marian spirituality are too often overlooked, by Catholics and Protestants alike.

The near-absence of the Blessed Virgin in the modern western consciousness

Dear Mr. Culbreath. Ain't that the truth.

John 19 When Jesus therefore had seen his mother and the disciple standing whom he loved, he saith to his mother: Woman, behold thy son. After that, he saith to the disciple: Behold thy mother. And from that hour, the disciple took her to his own.

"Mary is my Mother," is a statement every Christian should be able to say.

In any event,it was not coincidental that Mary, as Our Lady of Guadalupe, appeared smack-dab in the middle of The Americas.

But we Christians in America are more concerned with Chiliasm and Israeli politics and we never stop to consider that miracle.

C'es la vie.

You've done it again; I'm not going to bother with you.

Dear Steve. I really was trying to both respond to your question and be light-hearted at the same time but it appears I failed. My apologies.

As a professional sinner and an amateur Christian I can only respond by writing I am hoping never to hear those words from Jesus.

By forgetting that Mary is Mother of God, we end up forgetting that Christ is God. Martin Luther understood this, and remained devoted to Mary.

Vermont Crank:

Your apology is accepted warmly and as sincerely as mine is extended. I did not read your comment as light-hearted and the fault there is at least half mine. I reiterate that I did not intend to make the accusation of which you complained, so I apologize for the misperception and the want of skill that created it.

Mr. Culbreath:

In responses to your questions: yes, I look forward to it; and no, they do not. Coming from an admittedly Protestant perspective, the lines "I'll join the angels / To sing her praises / And form her court" sound far too reminiscent of Revelation 7.9-12 and not like a family reunion.

But Lydia is right, this is not the context for any such discussion. W4 is, and to my knowledge (ca. Jan. 08) always has been, an ecumenical forum, and I crossed a line. Didn't exactly know it was there (thought it was a little further ahead), but that's not much of an excuse.

Apologies to all.

P.S. I'll readily confess to overanalyzing song lyrics (anybody remember the beautiful Christmas song "Child of Love" by Sara Groves? Objectionable lyric: 'You [Christ] were made for all mankind') -- it's instinctive, I know too many people who don't bother to listen to what's actually being said in their favorite songs.

And, of course, "It Came Upon a Midnight Clear."

Coming from an admittedly Protestant perspective, the lines "I'll join the angels / To sing her praises / And form her court" sound far too reminiscent of Revelation 7.9-12 and not like a family reunion.

Describing our relationship with the Blessed Virgin Mary in heaven as a "family reunion", like all metaphors, has its limitations. The similarity to Rev 7:9-12 is deliberate: there is a king in Heaven, with a royal court, and the angels sing His praises. There is also a queen in heaven, "greater than the cherubim and more glorious than the seraphim", who as mother of the Redeemer reigns together with Him. She is there in body, as her remains have never been found on this earth (else it would be the greatest Christian shrine in the world).

Is it the view of your sect that no one is praiseworthy in heaven apart from God? That praise for any creature crowds out the praise due to God? I think it makes better sense that we will also have praise for God's handiwork - for the angels and saints and those to whom we are the most indebted.

My sect? Thanks. So much for trying to strike a conciliatory tone.

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